Was soll das, dem Irak wird mit Krieg gedroht, und Nordkorea nicht

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arsch2150

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Was soll das dem Irak wird mit Krig gedroht und Nordkorea nicht

Was soll das eigentlich von Bush, der Irak wo bisher keine Beweise für ABC-Waffen gefunden wurden wird mit Krieg gedroht, es seien so gar keine Beweise mehr nötig und Nordkorea die es offen zugeben an Atombomben zuforschen da gibt es mildernde Worte, das könne man auch hohne Krieg regel.
Ich sehe da keine Logik hinter, außer das Bush das was sein Vater nicht erreicht hat schaffen will und der ist der mechtigste Mann der Welt (sind wir nicht arme Schweine das wir auf dieser Welt leben müssen?).
 
Die USA will denen , die fast nichts zu essen haben , das Erdöl abziehn.
Beweis : Man bemerkt es , weil die USA im interview gesagt haben dass sie im falle eines krieges alle Raffinerien besetzen werden ...

:lol: Ich hoffe das das stimmt :lol:

Ps : Wenns losgeht :

Iraker-->:jumpin: :utminigun: <---Amerikaner
 
Man dem geht es doch weniger um die Waffen. :rolleyes:
Der will Saddam weg haben ganz einfach.
Und da dient der Vorwand mit den ABC Waffen nunmal dazu dort nen Krieg anzuzetteln.
In Nordkorea sieht man nicht das Risiko was von Saddam ausgehen "könnte".

Und das Öl was dabei vielleicht noch rausspringt wird natürlich auch gern mitgenommen. :mad:

mfg Tweaki4k
 
Schonmal daran gedacht, das die USA von Südkorea "Schutzgeld" bekommen?
Wenn Nordkorea weg ist, haben die Amis eine Einnahme weniger. Auch Deutschland mußte an die Alliierten Besatzungsgeld zahlen!
 
ich finde die bedrohung aus Nordkorea ist größer als die vom Irak
die nordkoreanischen raketen reichen z.B. schon bis Seattle
mich wunderts sowieso, dass nordkorea überhaupt zugibt atomprogramme zu haben

nordkorea ist für mich von der staatsform und der regierung her, das land das mich am meisten ankotzt,
die armen leute die da leben müssen;
nich mal James Bond dürfen die anschauen

NordKorea wollte nämlich irgendwer verklagen, da der anfang des filmes nordkorea in ein falsches licht bringt (oder so), ist dann auch verboten worden
in Südkorea war es ein riesen erfolg :D
 
Ich halte Nordkorea eigentlich nicht für so eine große Bedrohung wie den Irak. Die größte Bedrohung für mich sind die Amis:D

In Nordkorea gibts kein Öl, ergo lohnt es sich für die Amis auch nicht da Krieg zu führen, daher versuchen sies da auf diplomatischem Weg.
 
Das mit dem Öl wusste ich auch foher, aber was mich am meisten ankozt/wundert ist das ein groß Teil der Amerkanischenbevölkerung damit macht.
Wie kann Bush eigentlich Nachts noch rug schlaffen? Wer versucht einen Krieg anzuzeteln für ein paar Tropfen Öl ist für mich Krank
 
Is doch wohl logisch warum der Ami den Koreanern net mit Krieg droht...
Korea hat damit angefangen als der Ami schon mit Krieg gegen den Irak gedroht hat. Da der Ami aber sich kein zwei Fronten Krieg leisten kann, hat Korea mom nichts zu befürchten! Auch nicht wenn die UN hinter ihm stehen würde! Dazu ham selbst die Amis net genug leute! Sobald aber die sache im Irak vorbei is wird er sich die Koreaner vorknöpfen!

Greetz!
 
Ich glaube die Ressourcen hat der Ami, Beispiel im 2.Weltkrieg haben sie auch einmal gegen die Deutschen in Europa und einmal im Pazifischer Ozean gegen die Japaner.
 
@Funestor du aber die ami´s bzw. Rumsfeld hat gesagt das die AMI´s in der lage wären einen Krieg an zwei Fronten zu kämpfen und das sie es auch tun würden.
 
In Nordkorea gibts kein Öl, ergo lohnt es sich für die Amis auch nicht da Krieg zu führen, daher versuchen sies da auf diplomatischem Weg.
ich würde nicht sagen, dass Amerika nur wegen dem öl einen krieg führen will
das öl ist nur ein nützlicher nebeneffekt
 
Original erstellt von FutureAttack
ich würde nicht sagen, dass Amerika nur wegen dem öl einen krieg führen will
das öl ist nur ein nützlicher nebeneffekt

Was den sonst? Es gibt außer Öl und einer hungernden Bevölkerung im Irak nichts.
 
Für Nordkorea reicht das aktuelle Feindbild einfach nicht aus - oder wie wollen die USA Nordkorea plausibel in ihre terroristische "Achse des Bösen" einfügen?
Hauptgrund für die Kriegstreiberei ist imo die Rüstungslobby in den USA. Oder was meint ihr, wen Bush vertritt? Etwa das amerikanische Volk? :lol:

Sorry für die Gehässigkeit, aber in unserem Jahrhundert wird man entweder Zyniker oder man legt sich gleich ins Bett und steht nicht mehr auf.
 
Dass Nordkorea nicht ganz ohne ist, dürfte sich doch in letzten Jahren gezeigt haben.
Einen nach Südkorea überlaufender hochrangiger aus der Nordkoreanischen Armee (hat´nen Kampfjet gemobst ;)), auf Grund gelaufenen Spionage U-Boot, verdecktes Atomprogramm und anno 1987 so ungefähr, da schossen sie´ne Rakete zum Testversuch über Japan hinweg ins Meer.
Ich denke, da kann es durchaus schon berechtigt sein, mal ein Auge genauer auf dieses Land zu werfen.
 
@ Futureattack: Natürlich isses wegen dem Öl. Du glaubst doch nicht wirklich das der Irak eine ernsthafte Bedrohung für die USA darstellt!!!!
 
bu$h is einfach ein mann der zuviel macht hat, aber dazu ein zu kleines hirn hat.
als cl!nton dran war, hat niemanden der irak gestört,. jetzt is der schieswütige texaner wieder dran und irak muss weg !!!

wie soviel dummheit nur soviel macht haben kann is einfach unbegreiflich !!!
 
The Case Against the Iraq War
A speech by Matthew Rothschild, Editor of The Progressive Magazine - August 28, 2002

I'd like to spend the next few minutes with you discussing an issue of utmost urgency: the impending invasion of Iraq that the Bush Administration is planning. This invasion would be unconstitutional. It would be against international law. It would violate the Christian doctrine of "just war." It would further damage U.S. relations with its allies, relations that are already frayed by Bush's mindless unilateralism. It would wreak havoc in the Muslim world, where there's plenty of havoc already. It could shake the U.S. economy, which is trembling right now. And most importantly, it could result in the deaths of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of innocent people. Worst case: It could end with the United States dropping a nuclear bomb on Baghdad. President Bush acts as though he has the right to go attack Iraq anytime he wants to. That's false, and very dangerous for a democracy. Our founders gave the right to Congress and only to Congress to make the momentous decision of whether to take the United States to war or not. It's all there in Article 1, Section 8, of the U.S. Constitution. The founders knew that to give the President such power would risk dragging the country and its people into one senseless war after another. Sadly, since World War II, Presidents have usurped this power of Congress, and Congress has abdicated it. There has not been a Congressional declaration of war since December 1941, though there sure have been plenty of wars since then, most notably Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War, but also Panama, Grenada, the Dominican Republic, and myriad other nations the United States has assaulted directly or covertly over the last six decades. To this extent, we have a lawless Presidency. And if we are to restore our democracy, we need to insist that the Constitution be followed. That means Congress, not the President, has the sole power to declare war. In the current circumstance of Iraq, the President's apologists argue that he has the authority to wage war by virtue of two Congressional acts. First, in 1991, Congress gave the President the authorization to wage war against Saddam Hussein (though technically it did not declare war). But how open-ended is this authorization? Congress did not intend to give the President a blank check to wage war against Iraq forever, or anytime he happened to feel like it. The Congress did not grant the President the right to change the regime there more than a decade later. The second Congressional act that Bush's cheerleaders cite is the September 14, 2001, use of force authorization, which allows Bush to attack any person, group, or country that he believes was involved in the attack of 9/11. Now the Bush hawks have been doing their damnedest to pin some of the blame for that heinous act on Saddam Hussein, but there's hardly a tissue connecting the two. International law is quite clear: Country A cannot attack Country B unless Country B has already attacked Country A or is about to attack Country A. Iraq has not attacked the United States. And it's not about to. Saddam, as brutal as he is, loves to cling to power. He knows that attacking the United States would be suicidal. Actually, under international law, Saddam Hussein may have a better case for attacking the United States today than Bush has for attacking Iraq, since Bush is threatening an imminent war against Iraq. But no one wants to hear that! Furthermore, for the United States to take this aggressive action without the approval of the U.N. Security Council would be a violation of the U.N. charter, which the United States has ratified. To get around this, the Bush Administration is hyping the danger that Saddam poses to the United States. Cheney recently called Saddam a "mortal threat." That's getting a little carried away. The United States has a $400 billion Pentagon budget; Iraq's military budget is about $4 billion. The United States has thousands of nuclear weapons; Iraq doesn't have one yet, much less the means to deliver it. And even if Iraq obtained one nuclear weapon or two, would that present a "mortal" danger to the United States? Remember, the United States managed to survive for four decades against an enemy with thousands of nuclear weapons aimed at us. The fact is, there is no justification under international law or under Christian "just war" theory for Bush to attack Iraq. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury has said so. There is no causus belli--no precipitating act that Saddam Hussein has engaged in that would justify it. Nor has President Bush exhausted all peaceful means to resolve the issue, as required by just war theory. Quite the contrary: Rumsfeld and Cheney are openly disdainful of getting U.N. inspectors back in, which was and would be the best way to grind down whatever program Saddam Hussein has for weapons of mass destruction. (By the way, we hear a lot about Saddam Hussein kicking out weapons inspectors. But remember, President Clinton is as much to blame for those inspectors having left Iraq as anyone. Saddam did not kick them out. Clinton pulled them out right before he decided to wage his own little bombing attack on Iraq back in December 1998, to deflect attention from Monica Lewinsky.) In addition, just war theory requires that the risks of doing more harm than good with a war must be minimal. But with this invasion those risks cannot be dismissed lightly. Let's look at some of those risks. First, on the diplomatic front, a unilateral war against Iraq--or even one with our viceroy Tony Blair on board--would drive a wedge between the United States and many of its allies in Europe and around the world. The German government has already said it would not support such an adventure. The French are not enthusiastic. Nor are the Canadians, the Russians, and the Turks. And Saudi Arabia, whose kingdom--all right, whose oil--the United States fought to defend in the first Gulf War, won't even allow U.S. troops to use its land as a staging ground. Egypt and Jordan are also opposed to this war. This would be the second Muslim nation the United States has invaded in the last two years. Scenes of innocent Iraqis being killed on Al Jazeera will not, it is safe to say, enhance the image of the United States in the Muslim world, an image already badly, badly smeared by Ariel Sharon's offensive against the Palestinians and the 11-year embargo the U.S. insists that the U.N. impose on Iraq, an embargo that has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids. Bush can prattle on as long as he wants about the United States not being at war with Islam or the Muslim world, but after a while, many in that world will find the argument harder and harder to swallow. What will this mean? Well, for starters, the despotic rulers of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt, stooges of the United States, may lose their grip on power if the U.S. invasion galvanizes what Robert Fisk calls the sleeping Arab masses. Hard to see how that would be in the interests of the United States, as Bush defines them. And secondly, the more brutal the United States appears in the Muslim world, the more likely it is that suicide bombers will come to roost in the United States. It's a warning that we ignore at our peril. On the economic front, another war against Iraq is sure, in the short term at least, to spike the cost of oil, since Iraq is a leading oil supplier, and since other big oil suppliers--Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iran --are right next door. Now our economy is already in difficult straits. The invasion of Iraq could tip it back into recession. On the military front, and here's a sobering irony, Bush's invasion may actually increase the odds that Saddam Hussein would use chemical or biological weapons. Bear with me here. Back in 1991, he had chemical or biological weapons loaded onto missiles. Bush the Elder warned Saddam that if he used those weapons, he would face devastating retaliation. Everyone, including Saddam, understood that to mean the U.S. would drop a nuclear bomb on him. So what did he do? He backed down and didn't use those weapons. But today, Bush the Younger is making it quite clear that Saddam is going to be a goner, so Saddam has no incentive not to throw whatever vials of chemical or biological weapons he might have lying around at U.S. troops or at Israel. Brent Scowcroft made this point in his op-ed in The Wall Street Journal on August 15. "Saddam would be likely to conclude he had nothing left to lose, leading him to unleash whatever weapons of mass destruction he possesses." This could inflict awful casualties on U.S. troops or Israeli civilians, and then what? Then, the worst case could come true and George W. could drop a nuclear bomb on Iraq, the first time in 57 years that the world has seen such a hideous device used in warfare. The lesson of 1991 should be that Saddam Hussein knows not to use his chemical or biological weapons. What evidence is there that he's more reckless and suicidal today than he was back in 1991? He hasn't recently invaded another country. He hasn't recently gassed the Kurds or the Iranians (which he did, it must be noted, when he was receiving military intelligence from the United States). He is still in that box that Colin Powell said he was in just a few months ago. He hasn't exactly been jumping out of it. The difference is, Bush is more eager than ever to go to war against him.
 
As the President's popularity drops, and as the corporate scandals erode Republican strengths, Bush has a crass political imperative to do something popular. And, in the short term, wars boost a President's popularity. Plus, Bush and Cheney are overwhelmingly concerned about the control of world oil supplies. "Middle East oil producers will remain central to world oil security" in the coming decades, said last year's Cheney Report on energy. And in his speech before the VFW on August 26, Cheney noted that Saddam Hussein has "a seat atop 10 percent of the world's oil reserves." Cheney added that if Saddam acquires weapons of mass destruction, he "could then be expected to seek domination of the entire Middle East [and] take control of a great portion of the world's oil supplies." Back in 1991, the peace movement had a slogan: No Blood for Oil. It's a slogan that's even more relevant today. Now Bush is dreaming of an antiseptic war, a quick strike that would topple the regime at little cost. This is the so-called "Baghdad First" strategy, but I doubt it will succeed. Instead, it could very well lead to some gruesome door-to-door fighting. And let's remember, Baghdad is a city of more than three million people, and they aren't all named Saddam Hussein. This is the biggest reason to fear Bush's invasion of Iraq, whether it's Baghdad First or Baghdad Last: It is likely to lead to the deaths of thousands, if not tens of thousands, of innocent Iraqis. It is a fundamental moral precept that every human being is of equal value. We, in the United States, cannot turn our eyes from the great mass murder the United States could be committing by waging this war. It is the arrogance of empire to even contemplate such an act. If you're opposed to this war, for any of the reasons I've sketched just now, I urge you to do whatever you can, nonviolently, to express yourself. Yes, write your Senators and Representative. But also talk to your friends, family members, neighbors, colleagues. You'd be surprised how many people agree with you that this war in the making is a fool's and a bully's errand. And don't stop there: You and those who agree with you should organize rallies, teach-ins, and demonstrations in your community, at the nearest high schools and colleges, and in the union halls and churches and mosques and synagogues close by. Bush wants to take us off a cliff. And it's up to us to stop him, using our words, our arguments, our morality, and our nonviolent activism to prevent this horrendous war before it starts. And we must do it together. One person is a crank. Two persons a curiosity item. Three persons a cabal. Four persons a sect. But ten people, and you've got a decent picket line. A hundred people is a good demonstration. And a thousand people: that's practically the Paris Commune. As the great poet and essayist June Jordan, who died just a few months ago, wrote: "We are the people we've been waiting for." Peace! -- Matthew Rothschild Editor Matthew Rothschild comments on the news of the day.

October 11, 2002
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Congress Abdicates It's a sad, sad day for our democracy. The Congress, far from exercising its proper role to declare war, has pawned that off at a discount to the President of the United States. This was the hour of cowardice. By passing the authorization of force by overwhelming amounts in both houses, Congress has just given vast power to the man who is already the most powerful person on Earth. President Bush can now attack Iraq any time he feels like it. He doesn't need to wait for Iraq to do anything that would even approximate a casus belli. He doesn't first have to let the U.N. inspectors go back to Iraq (actually, the United States is blocking their return right now). He doesn't have to await the approval of the U.N. Security Council (even though Congress bases its authorization, in part, on previous Security Council Resolutions). No, all Bush needs to say is diplomacy has failed, and the war is on. Valiantly, 133 members of the House and 23 members of the Senate opposed the war, some of them eloquently, including Senators Kennedy, Feingold, and Byrd, as well as Representatives Kucinich and Baldwin and Stark. Credit goes out to peace activists for putting the heat on legislators to get as many votes as they did. But not nearly enough legislators came around. This vote reveals the weakness of the Democratic Party as an oppositional force, especially at the leadership level. Tom Daschle and especially Dick Gephardt undercut their colleagues who wanted to take a principled stand. And blowhards like Joe Biden at the end of the day gave Bush what he wanted. Which is a license to unleash, as he so grotesquely put it the other day, "the full force and fury" of the U.S. military on the people of Iraq. Thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis are likely to die in this war. And the U.S. military is likely to slaughter thousands of Iraqi troops as during the Turkey Shoot of the first Iraq war. "We need to get over thinking as if soldiers who are killed in war are not innocent," Howard Zinn noted in a speech in Madison, Wisconsin, October 10. "In war, you kill the victims of the tyrant you are fighting against." Zinn also underlined how our system of checks and balances, which in normal times does not function very well, totally breaks down in times of war. "Democracy flies out the window as soon as war comes along," he said. Only one thing now stands in the way of the massacre Bush is planning: the organized resistance of peace activists around the country. Congress has shirked its duty, but we should not shirk ours. We must try to persuade a majority of our fellow citizens that this war is madness. Already, support for the war is wearing thin, and opposition intensifying. In rallies across the country, thousands of new people are coming to the fore to challenge Bush's policy. Washington and the mainstream media are in for a surprise: A new peace movement is rumbling. It will take an enormous clamoring from the citizenry if we have any hope to derail Bush's bullet train. Clamor we must.
 
Hauptgrund für die Kriegstreiberei ist imo die Rüstungslobby in den USA. Oder was meint ihr, wen Bush vertritt? Etwa das amerikanische Volk?

Warum fallen dann die Aktien von dem Rüstungskonzern in die ich extra mit Blick auf den Irakkrieg investiert habe? ich dachte mir, warum nicht auch mal am Krieg verdienen, aber Pustekuchen, Talfahrt ist angesagt :( Und zur Diskussion, das Problem ist, dass wir uns alle nicht mit Weltpolitik auskennen, deshalb ist eine Diskussion in dieser Form sinnlos. Begreift erstmal das große Ganze, dann wundert ihr euch auch nicht mehr über die amerikanische Außenpolitik und die Reaktion von anderen Staaten darauf. Also nicht immer "Gerechtigkeit" schreien, wenn das eine Land vernichtet werden soll, dann muss aber auch das andere dran glauben. Seid doch froh, dass die Kriegstreiberei im Moment nur gegen den Irak geht und wenn ihr jetzt wieder fragt " warum, das ist doch ungerecht?!" dann verweise ich wieder auf weiter oben.

gruß

allah
 
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Zudem steht Nordkorea unter einem Gewissen "Schutz" von seiten China. Und mit China legt sich NIEMAND an.
 
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